Hello and welcome to the other one of not another one.

This is our weekend chat where we kick back and relax and, you know, talk about all the latest horrendous things happening in the world,

but with a smile on our face, isn't that right, Tim?

Because we enjoy misery.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, so it's, that's actually a really interesting question.

The last few crazy years, I mean, they have been a roller coaster, haven't they, in politics? And some of it

has felt a little tiny bit masochistic. We're going to talk a bit about leadership in a crisis

through the prison of this current Trump, Tariffageddon period. And also a bit about what's

happening in UK politics, because we've obviously got a huge round of elections coming up in May. And I've been interested in what a lot of MPs have wanted to talk to me about over the last couple of weeks is not the Trump crisis, actually. So I want to delve a bit into that. But Ian, have you found the last few years the roller coaster enjoyable?

I mean, you know, are we just masochists that we're sitting here again talking about these

very frightening huge challenges that the country faces? What's what is the psychology of it for you?

Maybe, uh, maybe I'm getting old, but no. I would never say that.

And I'm not in day-to-day journalism as I used to be.

You know, I don't write a column for The Times anymore.

I decided to give that up.

But I spent 30 years of my life in newspapers.

It was always appearing in them or you know being an executive in newspapers

I found it tremendously exciting even when difficult dark stuff was happening I found the process of

news really really energizing I must admit this and it would include even the financial crisis

there it was just endlessly interesting in learning new stuff all the time i must admit i'm finding this current phase like the last six months or so

exhausting and that is the word that i hear from friends as well who are not in the news business and friends

...