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The David Frum Show

What It Means to Be American

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 8 April 2026

⏱️ 59 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this episode of “The David Frum Show,” The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with his thoughts on the nearly two decades of economic turmoil that has caused younger generations to lose faith in American institutions and led to the rise of populism in the United States. David argues that as the country stands on the precipice of a Donald Trump–manufactured economic crisis, perhaps we will learn to appreciate the basic ideas that led to prosperity in the 1980s and ’90s. Then David is joined by CNN’s Fareed Zakaria to reflect on the American ideals that captivated David and Fareed when they first immigrated to the U.S. and whether they still ring true today. As America celebrates its 250th anniversary, David and Fareed discuss whether this country remains the same one they moved to many years ago and whether America has strayed from its foundational principles. Finally, David concludes the episode with an examination of Italo Calvino’s 1972 novel, “Invisible Cities,” and a discussion about our postliterate society. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/Listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

The Atlantic has debuted a first of its kind collaboration with the Seaborne cruise line to bring great minds on board their luxury ships.

0:07.6

Join us for a 12-day voyage with the Atlantic.

0:10.6

Discover this sailing from Montreal to Boston and more at seaborne.com.

0:15.2

Music Hello and welcome to the David Frum show. I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.

0:33.2

This week marks one year of the David Frum show. I'm so grateful to everyone who has watched and listened along the way.

0:40.3

To mark the occasion, I've invited my old friend, Farid Zakaria, to discuss with me what it means to be an American.

0:46.9

Both Farid and I were born citizens of other countries.

0:49.7

He of India, me of Canada.

0:51.4

And we're going to look back on our decision to join our fates to that

0:55.0

of the United States and how we feel about it all these years later. My book this week will be

1:00.7

Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino, a meditation on words and meanings that casts light on the

1:07.0

decline of literacy in modern American society. Before either the dialogue or the book,

1:13.1

some opening thoughts on the economic troubles gathering for the United States. President Trump's

1:19.1

second term has been economically troubled from the beginning. 2025 was upended by his

1:25.2

decision to impose high tariffs, and that crushed job creation in the United States, very little net new job creation in 2025.

1:32.9

But things are even worse in 26 with the president's decision to open a major war with Iran without apparently thinking through the implications of this war for oil prices.

1:43.3

Experts describe the largest supply shock to energy since the 1970s, maybe the largest of all

1:50.0

time.

1:51.0

And while this shock has only begun to be felt by Americans, more is coming.

1:55.7

It's like the president dropped a giant rock in a bowl of water, and it takes a little

2:00.8

bit of time for the impact of the rock to slosh the water out of the bowl. But everyone, I think, is aware that a shock is coming and they're bracing for. I want to put this shock in some kind of context. Over the 25 years, 1982 to 2007, a quarter century, I graduated from college in 1982.

2:19.1

So for the 25 years of my opening adult life, the American economy lived through a time of

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