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Hello and welcome to the David Frum Show.

I'm David Frum, a staff writer at The Atlantic.

My guest this week will be Matt Pottinger, who served as Deputy National Security Advisor in the first Donald Trump term.

And we will be discussing

the very uncertain, unsettled, and dangerous situation in the Persian Gulf as the United States

and Iran conduct this cold truce with double blockades each of the other. And Matt will be

explaining to me and to all of us, the state of play as he sees it from his point of view

as someone who is broadly sympathetic to the agenda of President Trump, even if he is no

longer directly associated with the administration. The book this week will be Labyrinth by

Jorge Luis Borges, a masterpiece of strange and symbolic writing from the 1940s translated

to English in the 1960s. But before either the dialogue or the book, I want to talk about a different subject,

and that is the dramatic election in Hungary that occurred this past weekend,

with this convincing and crushing defeat of the government of Victor Orban.

Many of those who are sympathetic to Orban or who were sympathetic to Orban, and he want to see some kind of Orban-like politics come to the United States, have chosen to interpret his crushing repudiation by the Hungarian people as a repudiation also the idea that Orban was ever any kind of threat to freedom and democracy. What kind of dictator, they ask, leaves office because he's rejected

...