Hey, I'm Noam Weissman, and you're listening to Unpacking Israeli History, the podcast that takes a deep dive into some of the most intense, historically fascinating, and often misunderstood events and stories linked to Israeli history.

If you listened to last week's episode of Unpacking Israeli History, you already know what I'm about to say.

This week's episode is a part two of a conversation I had with my friend, journalist, and

expert about all things Israel and Jewish history, Kaviv Retagor.

Kaviv and I planned to have a 45-minute conversation about Zionism.

But once we started, we couldn't stop, just like Pringles. See what I did

there? Once you pop, you can't stop. Okay, you know what I'm saying. Anyway, it ended up being

hours of talking. So if you didn't get to listen to part one yet, go ahead and check it out.

This week is the second part. So it always makes sense to do part one before part two. Sorry to be a stickler for that, but I just think it makes sense.

We'll be talking about how to talk about Zionism.

That's what this episode is about.

But like I said, go check out part one first.

When it begins, the conversation might feel abrupt.

Because again, this was originally just one conversation.

But I think you'll settle into it quickly.

I hope you love it.

And without further ado, yes, I said adieu, let's get into it. Yala, let's do this.

Chaviv, I think it's really important for people to remember that the PLO was created in 1964,

three years before there was the quadrupling of the state of Israel.

I think that really matters.

And also looking at the Franz Fanon would write about this, also about Algeria and throwing off the colonialists from France.

Because the argument, I think, was that France doesn't have a multi-thousand-year history of

...