What happens if China wins over Russia and India?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters

News, Society & Culture, Politics

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 2 October 2025

⏱️ 38 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Trump’s foreign policy means the United States is leaving a vacuum in world affairs – and China looks increasingly willing to fill it. Following the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation summit in Tianjin last month, what is the real nature of Xi Jinping and China’s expanding but complex international relationships, including those with Narendra Modi in India and Vladimir Putin in Russia? In the latest episode of This Is Not A Drill, Gavin Esler talks to Elizabeth Wishnick, expert on Chinese-Russian relations and senior research scholar at Columbia University’s Weatherhead East Asian Institute, and Tanvi Madan, senior fellow in the Center for Asia Policy Studies at the Brookings Institution, host of the Global India podcast and author of the book Fateful Triangle: How China Shaped US-India Relations during the Cold War.” • This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni the service that keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold. There’s a special offer for This Is Not A Drill listeners – go to https://incogni.com/notadrill to get an exclusive 60% off your annual plan. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Sharing intimate photos of her without her consent.
0:03.0	Unwanted touching. Unwanted comments. Unwanted nudes.
0:06.6	Controlling what she can and can't wear.
0:08.5	Controlling who she can and can't see.
0:10.3	Threatening her.
0:11.7	Enough. This is abuse.
0:14.3	If you think it's wrong, act on it.
0:16.5	Call it out, show support, report it.
0:19.4	There are many ways you can safely tackle violence against women and girls.
0:23.4	Find out how at gov.uk slash enough.
0:27.4	If someone is in danger, call 999. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the world became used to the triumph and the triumphalism of the United States.
0:46.7	In September 1990, U.S. President George H.W. Bush told a joint session of Congress that there was a new world order. Foreign policy experts
0:56.1	famously opined on the end of history the creation of a unipolar world. In this episode, we want to
1:02.3	understand how far the disorder in Trump land encourages a new kind of order based on China's increasingly
1:09.1	positive relationship with other big and formerly
1:12.4	rival powers, including Russia and India. I'm Gavin Esler, and this is Not a Dream. The foreign policy of President Trump in his second term suggests the United States may be leaving
1:45.2	a vacuum in world affairs, a vacuum energetically being filled by Xi Jinping in Beijing,
1:51.6	and China's expanding but complicated international relationships, including those with
1:56.6	Narendra Modi in India and Vladimir Putin in Russia. Later in the show, we'll hear how India is
2:03.7	navigating all this. But first, Dr. Elizabeth Wyshnick is an expert on Chinese-Russian relations
2:09.3	and security policy. Dr. Wyshnick is senior research scholar at Columbia University's
2:15.9	Weatherhead East Asian Institute.
	...

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