This is the reason interview with Nick Gillespie, where I go deep with the artists, activists,

entrepreneurs, policymakers, businessmen, and visionaries who are making the world more libertarian,

or at least more interesting by challenging worn out ideas and orthodoxies.

Today's guest is Jeff Flake, the former Arizona Senator, U.S. ambassador to Turkey,

and now head of the brand new Institute of Politics at Arizona State University.

Flake made national headlines in 2017 when he delivered a searing Senate floor speech

announcing that he would not seek re-election, and declaring that he would

not be complicit in the degradation of our politics under Donald Trump and MAGA.

A lifelong conservative with libertarian leanings, Flake built his career on defending free markets,

free trade, limited government, and pro-immigration policies.

These were positions that put him at odds

with a Republican Party drifting out of the Tea Party and toward raw populism and protectionism.

We talk about why he chose principle over power and whether he still feels comfortable with

that choice. His time representing the U.S. and Turkey as Russia invaded Ukraine, his push for

reforming America's broken political system, and why he believes the fever of grievance politics

on the right and the left must end and eventually will. Here is the Reason interview with Jeff Flake.

Jeff Flake, thanks for talking to Reason.

It's great to talk to you, Nick.

We are at Arizona State University in Tempe. Am I pronouncing that right?

Tempe.

Tempe, Arizona, where you've got, as the logo behind you shows, an Institute of Politics,

we're going to talk about what you're doing there and what you have to accomplish.

...