Come on there, Chuck Todd, and this is the Chuck Todd cast.

So as the Mar-a-Lago court battle continues to churn, we learn more information about

the Department of Justice's investigation into the January 6 insurrection, which is a

separate investigation.

In fact, this week they went so far as to seize the bones of Trump advisor's Boris Epstein

and Michael Lindell, one Trump confinant moons above them all, though its former New York

City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

So my guest today is Andrew Curksman, and he's the author of Giuliani, The Rise and

Traject fall of America's Mayor.

He's been covering Rudy Giuliani since the 90s, and his new book he broke the news about

attempts by Giuliani's aids to secure a pardon and a presidential medal of freedom at the

same time, an interesting ask.

And also I help tell the story of how Rudy ended up alone as he wrote last weekend to mark

the anniversary of September 11.

There's so much in here to go after Andrew.

I don't know where to begin, but I'm going to start with sort of the simple question that

is you had to took a whole book to answer is what the hell happened to Rudy Giuliani.

Well, you know, I had the same question myself.

I've been covering him for almost 30 years as a reporter, and I was as surprised as

anyone about, you know, kind of what he showed up as when he went to work for Donald Trump.

I've been working on this biography for three or four years.

And in essence, what I concluded was that this is a slow moral collapse of a very extraordinarily

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