Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Radical Canter Podcast.

I am Kim Scott, co-founder of Radical Cander and author of the books, Radical Cander and Just Work,

not to mention three unpublished novels.

And I'm Jason Roseoff, CEO and co-founder of Radical Candor.

I'm Amy Sandler, your host for the Radical Candor podcast.

And Kim, I think you did mention the author of three, just the spirit of clarity.

I did.

Yes.

On the last episode, we talked about the responsibilities of managers of small teams.

Today, we're going to talk about what managers of managers do at work.

And we did touch on this a couple episodes ago.

We'll put that in the show notes when we spoke about quiet quitting. But today,

it's all about the role of manager of managers. And so first of all, let's talk about,

what are we actually talking about here when we say a manager of managers? We are defining the

transition when someone goes from managing that

small team to a large team is this manager of managers. Kim, what is the difference here? The difference

is that if you're managing people who manage other people, then you're managing managers. Whereas if

you're managing individual contributors, if you're managing individual contributors,

then you're managing a team. And so I think the big difference when you become a manager of managers

is that now you have to become a thought partner not only on the task at hand. So if you're a manager

of engineers, you're a thought partner for the engineering project. Or if you're a a manager of engineers, you're a thought partner for the

engineering project. Or if you're a manager of salespeople, you're a thought partner for their

...