Welcome to this encore edition of Untangle. I'm Patricia Carpice. This was one of my favorite discussions. Frank Osteskes is the author of the book, The Five Invitations, discovering what Dad can teach us about living fully. He's also co-founder of the Zen Hospice Project,

the beloved Buddhist teacher and founder of the Meta Institute.

He's the leading voice in the end-of-life care movement.

He shares comforting and inspiring truths on how we live and die

and on what matters most.

When we get to the end of our lives, he says, the two questions most often asked are,

Did I love well and am I loved?

His teachings show us that we can live with joy and sorrow and live a rich life filled with love.

As always, we're untangle, the podcast from Muse, the brain

sensing headband that helps to transform your brain. Use promo code Untangle15 at choosemuse.com

for your discount. Now on to Frank. Frank, it is so great and such an honor to have you on Untangle today. Thank you so much for being here.

I'm delighted to be with you and your listeners as well.

I want to start by asking you the question, why did you choose to get into work with the death and dying?

And how did you choose to start the Zen hospice?

People's lives don't always follow a linear path. Mine certainly didn't. I'd say walking in another

direction, I arrived at this door. My own childhood was wrought with difficulty. My parents were

alcoholic. There was terrible things that happened in my teenage

years. And so I was really trying to avoid suffering. At some juncture, that doesn't work.

You have to turn toward your own suffering and see what it has to teach you about compassion.

And so initially, my work with people who are disabled or facing life-threatening illness

was really actually about trying to avoid my own

pain. I thought if I was with their pain, mine might not seem too bad. I think actually if we're

...