Welcoming Holy Disorder with Connie Zweig, Ph.D.

Everything Belongs: Living the Teachings of Richard Rohr Forward

Center for Action and Contemplation

Religion & Spirituality, Christianity

4.8 • 723 Ratings

🗓️ 6 June 2025

⏱️ 86 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How do we navigate spiritual transformation when everything seems to be falling apart? In this episode, we're exploring Chapter 4 of Richard Rohr’s final book, The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage, titled "Welcoming Holy Disorder: How the Prophets Carry Us Through." After our conversation with Richard, we're joined by Jungian psychologist and author Connie Zweig, who deepens our exploration into the role of the shadow, the hidden parts of ourselves and our communities that disorder brings to light. Connie, along with hosts and CAC staff Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Carmen Acevedo Butcher, unpack the cyclical pattern of order, disorder, and reorder that Richard calls the Wisdom Pattern. Together, they explore how disorder is not only inevitable but sacred, a season of necessary unraveling that allows space for grace, healing, and transformation. This episode shows how the prophets help us see what we cannot, why true spiritual growth demands discomfort, and how embracing the dark night of the soul can lead to profound renewal—both personally and collectively. Connie Zweig, Ph.D. is a retired Jungian therapist and author of Meeting the Shadow and Romancing the Shadow. Her award-winning book, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul, extends Shadow-work into midlife and beyond and explores aging as a spiritual practice. Her book, Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path: The Dance of Darkness and Light in Our Search for Awakening, extends shadow-work into religion and spirituality. Her new podcast, Dr. Neil’s Spiritual Awakening to Non-Duality, posts on all podcast platforms. See her new SUBSTACK for livestreams and new writing: https://www.shadowworkawareness.com/about. Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to a podcast by the Center for Action and Contemplation. To learn more, visit
0:05.4	cac.org. Friends, welcome back to another episode of the Everything Belongs podcast, a podcast where we
0:14.4	explore the teachings of Father Richard War and we live them forward. We ask new questions in an ever-evolving world and invite you
0:24.6	as our listeners to apply them to your own life. This season, we've been looking at Father
0:29.7	Richard's latest, and he claims his last book, The Tears of Things. It's interesting to reflect on the
0:36.7	fact that not too long ago, in failing
0:39.8	health, Father Richard had retired, told the world that he was stepping back from his work
0:45.6	at the Center for Action and Contemplation in his public teaching. Father Richard was unexpectedly
0:50.9	graced with an invitation to fly to the Vatican and have a private conversation with
0:57.5	Pope Francis. And there being wheeled back to a private room for a private audience with one of his
1:04.9	greatest heroes who Richard considered one of the greatest prophetic voices in the Christian world today and in history.
1:13.9	Father Richard was shocked to learn that Pope Francis knew him and knew his books.
1:20.8	Father Richard brought him a copy of the Universal Christ, and Pope Francis waved his hand and said,
1:26.1	ah, I've already read that. I have my own
1:28.4	copy. And he looked at Richard and told him, keep doing what you're doing. As I'm recording this,
1:38.6	it's just a few days past the passing of Pope Francis. And we so appreciate the gift and the source of wisdom that he was
1:48.6	to all of us and to the world. And as we explore Richard's latest and what he says will be his last
1:55.9	book, it's worth offering a moment of deep appreciation that it was that visit to Pope Francis
2:03.5	that caused Richard to come home to Albuquerque and sit down and write the tears of things,
2:11.0	prophetic wisdom, for an age of outrage.
2:14.5	In our fifth episode, we explore Chapter 4, welcoming holy disorder, how the prophets carry us through.
2:22.4	Those of us who've listened to Richard for a long time know that he teaches what he often
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