Click and Collect is now available at Selected London Primark stores for kids, baby and nursery products.

Shop exclusive ranges online and head to our designated Click and Collect collection points when your order is ready.

Go to Primark.com and shop Primark Click and Collect today. Little prices, big smiles.

I look around and I see a desperate lack of hope. It really, really troubles me.

But I think what we're missing is that when we say our politicians are behaving disgracefully and that's also broken,

they're just reflecting the society that's voting the men. We're missing that.

It's telling us something about our own society.

So if you don't engage respectfully, if you don't think through the issues, if you don't grapple with the facts, rather than the emotions,

there's your civilisation moment. We're not thinking. We're emoting everything.

And that's your classic with social media.

I think there's another aspect. There's the Old Edmund Burke thing.

You know, it takes for evil to prosper. It's good people to remain silent.

So you've got a huge number of people who are disengaged from politics, from public life, from the public square.

And they're frightened of going on social media. And what we actually need is more people of balance from the middle.

Being prepared to say, you know, I don't like all this stuff out there.

And I'm just going to go online and say, hey, there's some karma. Let's think this through.

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

I'm Constantine Kissen.

And this is the show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

Our terrific guest today is a former deputy prime minister of Australia,

who's now become a YouTuber. How far he has fallen, John Anderson. Welcome to Trigonometry.

It's fantastic to be with you both.

...