We're all just a bundle of neural pathways.

And sometimes it seems like things are so set in stone, but these neural pathways can be changed.

So even if, you know, you've been reinforcing this football player I was telling you about,

he would probably reinforce the fear around the pain a hundred times a day every day for 30 years.

And he got out of pain in four weeks

and you know what the pain did come back but you know he just looked at it as an opportunity to

practice not buying into fear around the pain and it went away again right so no matter how

hopeless it feels it's possible to get out of pain by changing your relationship with the fear around the pain.

This is like mind, like mind, a podcast about the surprising ways our thoughts and feelings can shape

our physical health. I'm your host, Laura Sago, and on each episode, I will speak with

researchers, physicians, and ordinary people who have incredible stories to tell about the

power of the mind-body connection. This podcast is brought to you

by Curable, an app that gives you safe, effective tools to understand and heal chronic pain.

You can download Curable in the Apple App Store on Google Play or learn more on our website at

curablehealth.com. That's C-U-R-A-B-L-E-Halth.com.

On today's episode, I am speaking with the director of the Pain Psychology Center in Los Angeles

and a member of our scientific advisory board here at Curable, Alan Gordon.

Alan has spent his whole career helping people overcome chronic pain that they've been told is incurable or hopeless.

And he does so by looking at it from a different perspective as more of a neural pathway problem.

And for many of his patients, his approach really works.

Well enough, in fact, that he's been able to expand the pain psychology center to include over 19 therapists to date.

But before Alan treated all of these incurable pain conditions, he actually lived through them himself.

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