We Are Going to Have to Live Here With Each Other

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 16 September 2025

⏱️ 116 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

This is an episode in two parts. First, my thoughts on Charlie Kirk’s murder, now that I’ve had a few days to process it, and to see the unfolding reactions and responses on both sides. Then a conversation with Ben Shapiro — one that was recorded shortly before Kirk’s assassination, but that has a different significance after it. This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “Charlie Kirk Was Practicing Politics the Right Way” by Ezra Klein Dominion by Tom Holland “What J.D. Vance Believes” by Ross Douthat Book Recommendations: Superabundance by Marian Tupy and Gale Pooley Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville The Constitution of Liberty by F.A. Hayek Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Carole Sabouraud, Sonia Herrero and Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The Last week, Charlie Kirk was murdered while speaking at Utah Valley University.
0:35.6	His murder has shaken me pretty deeply.
0:38.7	In the days after his assassination, when I would close my eyes,
0:42.3	I just kept imagining a bullet going through a neck.
0:47.6	But it disturbed me in a different way when I would open my eyes and look on mine
0:52.0	to see some of Kirk's allies declaring war,
0:55.7	insisting that normal politics had failed, that the time to cleanse this country of the radical
1:01.5	left, whatever that means, had come. When I'd see some of Kirk's critics mocking or reveling
1:08.3	in his murder, sharing clips of his worst moment, suggesting in one way
1:12.8	or another that he deserved this, that we were better off. This was not everybody, it was not
1:18.9	most of us, it never is. But the nature of online algorithms means that it makes for a lot of what
1:25.6	the most politically engaged see of each other.
1:29.0	I could just feel the temperature rising.
1:34.6	I don't think we have ever felt in my lifetime
1:38.6	as close to some kind of violent national rupture.
1:43.5	Because it's not just Kirk.
1:46.1	In the last few years, a bullet nearly ended Donald Trump's life.
1:49.4	A man tried to burn Josh Shapiro and his family alive in their home.
1:52.8	A man broke into Nancy Pelosi's home to kidnap her.
1:56.9	And when he didn't find her,
1:58.8	he fractured her 82-year-old husband's skull with a hammer.
	...

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