Not too long ago, everyone in digital media had the same idea.

Get really big, really fast, with help from Google and Facebook.

Turns out there was a problem with this plan.

There was no loyalty.

These audiences were not really the media company's audiences.

They were truly rented from Google or from Facebook.

That's Brian Morrissey, the Super Sharp Media Observer and Media Operator. And this week on

channels with Peter Kafka, I talked to Morrissey about how to run a media business without

getting big. What happens to the industry next? That's this week on channels wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Little do they know that you would put out. That's the thing.

Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher from Korea. Hello, Scott.

So give me your impressions of Seoul. Tell me all about it. Well, I'm drinking bubble tea,

of course. I was in the Gangham region today with all the lights and all the young people

and all the plastic surgery area. It's great, actually. It's very clean. It's very vibrant. Young people wandering everywhere.

It feels good. I mean, I think they feel very emboldened by pushing down the martial law thing,

because they're good at and we're not. And it feels very vibrant. It feels like it's not a lot different from the last time I was here.

I'll be honest with you, but I like Korea quite a bit.

How many times have you been here?

Well, you know, it's painful for me because I had a Korean friend who died.

He was so young, so young.

Oh, no.

...