Welcome to Hard Talk from the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sackett. My guest today has spent

most of his working life inside the human rights and humanitarian assistance machinery of the

United Nations. Falka Turk has worked in the field in the Balkans, the Middle East and Africa

to ease the human impacts of conflict. Now he's based in Geneva as the

UN Commissioner for Human Rights. As a worldwide advocate for human rights, humanitarianism and

mechanisms of international justice, he could be forgiven for feeling somewhat beleaguered.

War is having devastating impacts on basic rights in

Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Horrifying accounts of abuses and allegations of systemic violations

of international humanitarian law make headlines around the world. But what does the international

community embodied in the United

Nations do in response? All too often, it's constrained by geopolitical division, a lack of collective

will and a lack of money. And with Donald Trump back at the helm of the world's richest,

most powerful nation, it seems those who prioritise

multilateralism, international law and universal rights are swimming against a powerful tide.

What prospect is there of turning it back in their favor? Well, Falkerturg joins me now,

on the line from Geneva. Welcome to Hard Talk. Very happy to be here. It's good to have you with us, Mr. Turk. Let me begin with something you said very recently, which struck me. You said, we cannot allow the fundamental global consensus around international norms and institutions to crumble before our eyes. That is precisely what is happening,

isn't it? Well, look at the wars today. We have 59 countries in conflict. We see that the conduct

of warfare is not respected because there are actually international rules about it.

We see that even within societies, in inequalities grow, and fundamentally what is behind it is human rights.

So we need to make sure that the edifice that was built after the Second World War is preserved, strengthened and revitalized at this point in time.

Yes, but what I'm getting to is your point that it may be crumbling before our eyes. I wonder if you are

prepared to be candid with me and say that for various geopolitical reasons which we may well get into,

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