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Capitalisn't

Visa's Hidden Tax on Americans

Capitalisn't

University of Chicago Podcast Network

Stigler Center, Chicago Booth, Socialism, Antitrust, University Of Chicago Podcast Network, Growth, 087667, Policy, Monopoly, Professors, Distortion, Research, Competition, Capitalisnt, Inequality, Promarket, Politics, Policymaking, Special Interest, Economics, Efficiency, Regulations, Chicago, Business, Markets, University Of Chicago, Kate Waldock, Capitalism, Friction, Bethany Mclean, Government, Macroeconomics, News, Education, Waldock, Georgetown, Microeconomics, Luigi Zingales, Zingales, Finance, Ucpn

4.5584 Ratings

🗓️ 7 November 2024

⏱️ 47 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

While Americans rely on debit transactions for the necessities of life, most are unaware of the networks that drive those transactions, nor are they aware that one company, Visa, has monopolized debit transactions, penalized industry participants that seek to use alternative debit networks, and co-opted innovators, technology companies, and financial institutions to forestall or snuff out threats to Visa's debit network dominance.” So begins the monopolization lawsuit filed on September 24 by the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) against the country’s largest card company, Visa Inc. On one level, the case is simple: The DOJ alleges a clear violation of laws protecting markets against monopolies. But the case gets more complicated when looking at the details, in part because payment systems are mostly invisible part of the financial ecosystem. In effect, the DOJ alleges that Visa is pulling the levers of a really opaque and complex system to preclude competition and squeeze fees out of banks and vendors for itself.To understand the complexities and implications of the case, Bethany and Luigi are joined by Kathryn Judge, Harvey J. Goldschmid Professor of Law at Columbia University. Judge is an expert on banking, financial crises, regulatory architecture, and intermediation design beyond finance. Her book, Direct: The Rise of the Middleman Economy and the Power of Going to the Source (HarperBusiness, 2022), was on the long list for the Financial Times Business Book of the Year Award. Together, the three of them discuss both the surface-level and structural issues of an economy where consumers and small businesses are shortchanged on what is essentially a private sales tax on all debit-card purchases—and how to look for collective solutions when opt-outs aren’t possible.

Transcript

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0:00.0

One of the indicia that I would look for of, is this an area where I want to dig a little deeper

0:04.8

for a problem of the middleman economy, is it's an area where it seems like technological change

0:10.1

should have really disrupted the rule of the middleman, and it hasn't. And that's a sign that

0:15.4

there's something wrong. I'm Bethany McLean. Did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a good idea?

0:25.8

And I'm Luigi Zengalis.

0:27.1

We have socialism for the very rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

0:32.6

And this is Capitalism, a podcast about what is working in capitalism.

0:36.6

First of all, tell me, is there some

0:38.9

society you know that doesn't run on greed? And most importantly, what isn't? We ought to do better

0:43.9

by the people that get left behind. I don't think we shouldn't kill the capital system in the process.

0:49.2

While Americans rely on debit transactions for the necessities of life, Most are unaware of the networks that drive those transactions, nor are they aware that one company, Visa, has monopolized debit transactions, penalized industry participants that seek to use alternative debit networks, and co-opted innovators, technology companies, and financial institutions to forestall or

1:12.3

snuff out threats to Visa's debit network dominance.

1:15.8

So begins the lawsuit the Justice Department filed against Visa on September 24th, which alleges

1:21.2

that Visa illegally maintains a monopoly over debit network markets.

1:24.8

Earlier today, the Department of Justice sued Visa for violating

1:28.9

sections one and two of the Sherman Antitrust Act. We allege visa is a monopolist in the debit

1:35.2

transaction markets that is violating federal antitrust law and inflicting often hidden,

1:41.1

but significant harm on American consumers and businesses.

1:45.1

According to the complaint, more than 60% of debit transactions in the United States run on Visa's

1:50.2

debit network.

1:50.7

Visa operates the largest debit network in the United States.

1:55.2

A debit network facilitates the electronic transfer of funds directly from a consumer's bank account to the

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