So when we begin to know, look, there's shame in your marriage.

And the response for most of us is some degree of contempt against ourselves or against the other.

How does that dance play out in your marriage?

It's there for sure.

Well, hey, friend.

Welcome to Job with Julie.

I am Julie Slattery, and I want to let you know that this

podcast is listener-supported. It's an outreach of a ministry called Authentic Immacy,

and we exist to help you make sense of God and sexuality. Well, my guest today is my friend, Dr. Dan

Allender. Dan is one of the leading psychologists

related to sexual abuse and trauma, particularly from a faith perspective. Dan has been on the

podcast before, and in the show notes, we'll link to a classic conversation that I had with

him around his bestselling book called The Wounded Heart.

Now, what I love about Dan is that he's always calling us to deeper places.

And in this conversation, he's going to help us recognize unconscious reasons that we may have

married the person that we married and how you can begin to call these things out, identify them,

and work through them in a way that creates greater intimacy in your marriage. Today's conversation

with Dan revolves around his new book called The Deep Ruted Marriage. So let's head to the coffee

shop for my conversation with my friend, Dr. Dan Allender.

What a joy to have you back on Job with Julie, Dan. Thank you so much.

Oh, Julie, you know that being in the sandbox playing is so much fun with you.

Yeah, well, we're going to play today. We're going to talk about, and I think something I haven't talked to you about before, which is marriage. And you have a new book that just came out

...