What I think God is trying to do more often than not in our Bibles is to say, yes, I am omnipresent in the sense that I am everywhere present.

But the push, the impetus of what he's doing in scripture is to say, not only am I that, but I am drawing near to you relationally.

I'm drawing near to you to be, in a biblical word, to be in covenant with you, so that there is

more than just this is who I am out there, or all around, if you're thinking in omnipresent

terms, but I'm here with you. Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week

for thoughtful interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with Ryan Lister.

Ryan is a professor of theology at Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon.

He also serves as an associate pastor at Trinity Church of Portland, is a professor of theology at Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon. He also serves as an associate pastor at Trinity Church of Portland,

is the co-creator of the Canvas Conference, and is the author of the presence of God,

its place in the storyline of Scripture and the story of our lives from Crossway.

Today, Ryan and I discuss what it means when the Bible says that God is with us.

He unpacks the idea of the presence of God throughout Scripture, addresses common misconceptions

about what that phrase really means, and highlights how Jesus, God in the flesh,

stands as the ultimate example of God drawing near to his people.

Let's get started.

Ryan, thank you for joining us on the CrossFit podcast.

Yeah, it's great being here.

So the presence of God, it's a topic that on the one hand feels as familiar as your pillow.

You know, we hear that phrase or some version of it, the presence of God bandied about all the time, whether it's in music or in books

or in our prayers. We talk about the presence of God as evangelical Christians all the time.

And yet I think if we were we were to be pressed to explain what is the presence of God, we would probably have a hard time

...