My guest is Tom Baldwin.

Tom Baldwin is a writer and journalist and author of a new biography of the British Labour Party leader, Keir Stama, called Unsurprisingly Keir Stama the biography.

Welcome to the podcast, Tom.

Right. Well, I say biography. I'm told that this could have been originally an autobiography.

Can you clarify, please?

I was originally brought in to, euphemistically, help him put it together.

And we spent a bit of time doing some interviews and talking about what an autobiography would look like.

It became pretty clear quite early on.

He didn't feel comfortable with it.

Right.

He didn't want 300 pages of him

talking about how great he was.

And that's almost a clue,

the first clue, I think,

to what kind of politician is.

Most politicians like nothing more

than to talk about how great they are.

And he is quite buttoned up and shy

and doesn't want to be putting himself out there.

And so this biography is the result of chisling quite a lot of stuff out of him,

which he is not refusing to put out there, but he felt uncomfortable about getting out.

And so I think it, but people have read it say they'd come

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