Understanding Justice, Desire, and Death to Self: A Raw Conversation About Discipleship and Identity

Voxology

Philosophy, Society & Culture, Religion & Spirituality

4.8 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 28 May 2019

⏱️ 77 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Peeling back layers of modern Christianity's most pressing questions, Mike Erre, Tim Stafford, and Bonnie journey into a spirited and vulnerable mailbag episode that challenges traditional assumptions around social justice, obedience, desire, and discipleship. Through listener questions and current events, the team engages in an honest—and often humorous—debate about what it really means to deny oneself, how cultural experience shapes theology, and why "just quoting a Bible verse" isn't often sufficient in addressing global and personal stories of oppression or pain.

This episode particularly dives deep into the tension between desire and surrender, how systems of theology can unintentionally cause harm, and whether the church is meant to care solely for its own—or extend justice and mercy beyond its walls. Using voices from early Christian history to current church controversies, the Voxology crew explores messy, complicated—but vitally important—themes of love, privilege, repentance, justice, and formation.

Key Takeaways: • The Limitations of "Sufficient Scripture" – Why relying solely on scripture without lived experience can ignore systems of privilege and harm, especially in conversations about social justice. • Is Denying Ourselves Always Righteous? – Discussion around "death to self" and how it's often misused to silence or suppress identity, particularly among the marginalized. • Desire, Identity & the LGBTQ+ Conversation – Exploring how not all desires are equal in cultural weight or consequence, especially for those whose desires are tied to aspects of identity that have been historically rejected by the church. • Justice Within and Beyond the Church – Why early Christians were radical for not just supporting their own poor, but also caring for their Roman neighbors—and what that means for the church today. • Weaponizing Obedience – How well-intentioned calls to faithfulness can often reinforce harmful systems, and the need to rethink the language we use around sin, sacrifice, and obedience in pastoral contexts.

Resources Mentioned: • Rodney Stark – The Rise of Christianity • 1 Peter 2:12 – "Live such good lives among the pagans…" • Julian the Apostate's Letters – Historical evidence of Rome's reaction to Christian charity • Dallas Willard's Teachings – Especially regarding "joyful non-compliance" • John Coe (Talbot School of Theology) – On sin management and relational spirituality

Join the conversation and help reshape Christian community for a more just and Christ-centered world. If you've ever wrestled with obedience, struggled with your desires, or questioned the church's response to injustice—this one is for you.

Don't forget to email your questions to hello@voxpodcast.com or join us in the conversation on Facebook or Instagram.

We're on YouTube! VOXOLOGY TV Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe and leave a 5-star review on iTunes or follow us on Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon

Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV.

Our Merch Store! ETSY

Learn more about the Voxology Podcast

Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify

Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon

The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio

Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre

Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Transcript

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0:00.0	And then furthermore, we have ample evidence from the writings of the Roman provincial and governmental
0:11.5	officials that they were taking notice and were, in the Emperor Julian's case, were
0:18.5	radically offended at the care and concern the Christians were showing,
0:23.2	not just to their poor, but to the Roman poor.
0:30.6	Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Vox podcast. So glad you're tuning in. It is a beautiful, beautiful
0:37.0	summer day here in Ohio, but it is not
0:39.1	summer everywhere else. Tim, what's your weather status right now? It was 46 this morning outside.
0:45.7	It's been raining and thundering and lightning the last few days. Oh, nice, nice. Bonnie,
0:50.7	Texas, talk to us. 77, cloudy, but no chance of rain.
0:56.2	Humidity, 120 million percent.
0:59.0	And if you could see Bonnie's hair right now, that, that, like, that is, that is, that is, like, that humidity percent is proven by what is happening to the top of body's head.
1:13.7	It is absolutely amazing.
1:15.1	Do you know how long it took to get at this tame?
1:18.6	So imagine I've not had to have done anything.
1:22.6	Oh, it's awesome.
1:24.3	So anyway, my brothers and sisters, hey, I want to give a thank you to the many of you who
1:30.8	have reviewed our podcast and liked it and subscribed to it. That means a ton. I went back and
1:36.3	was reading some of the reviews. And boy, thank you. I'm so delighted that we get to be a part
1:42.5	of this. And I'm very appreciative of you taking the time
1:46.3	to do that.
1:47.0	That helps us in many, many ways.
1:49.3	We've got a mailbag episode today because like it's just so much.
	...

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