This is CBS, I on the World. I'm John Batchelor. I'm joined by my colleague and co-host Bill Rajo,

Senior Fellow Foundation for Defense of Democracies. We turn our attention to Ukraine, especially Ukraine,

under the bombardment of the Russian forces.

However, that is a subset of the largest story of the NATO meeting these last days

and what that points to for the Ukrainian conflict and for Europe in general.

We welcome John Hardy of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies,

who for many weeks and months has

helped us understand the picture in Ukraine, which doesn't change dramatically from week to

week, but the politics mixed in with the battlefront tell a story that is not positive.

John and Bill, a very good evening to you.

John, I begin with the report that there was a barrage of 500 missiles and drones against

civilian areas in Ukraine these last days.

That's consistent with other claims by op-ed writers, especially out of London, that Russia is settling in for another year of war and that the maximalist demands made by the Kremlin some weeks ago remain on the table no amendation whatsoever even for a ceasefire.

500 drones and missiles are mentioned in the latest report the night of 28, 29 June.

Is that a pattern that's different from what we've seen in the past?

Is that a category above the harassing of civilians, what to make of this number 500?

Good evening to you, John.

Hey, John, hey, Bill.

Great to be back on the show.

Thanks for having me on.

The trend that I would point to is a general increase in the number of Sh Shahed 136 or in the Russian,

in the Russian terminology of ground two one-way attack drones,

...