This is the Friends of History Debating Society.

I'm John Batsy with Professor H.J. Mackinder,

International Relations, six capital, six points of view,

second year of war, following what revelations we have.

We trust none of them.

These revelations from leaked documents

could all be manufactured by Beijing, by Moscow,

by Pyongyang, by Tehran, by unknown bad actors in cartels.

However, the documents point to a slow down stalemate

in Ukraine, possibly a setback for Kiev

because of air defenses.

They also point to other countries

where the US is surveilling private information.

Some say not a surprise, but there are diplomatic moments

that you don't want to reveal the fact

that you're spying on people.

We're going to Beijing, because Beijing always spies

on people and doesn't care who knows it.

Professor, your measure of Ukraine,

sometimes there are indications Ukraine is attempting to aid,

I mean, with hardware, Vladimir Putin.

Other times, Ukraine is presented to you.

...