One of my favorite things about talking to wonderful smart and interesting people is the

conversation that you start with is never the conversation that you end with.

Well that's definitely the case with Adam and Brunei.

We started talking about shitty first drafts and well we continue talking about creativity

and we totally go off topic and talk about a whole bunch of other things too.

I hope you enjoy part two of my conversation with Brunei Brown and Adam Grant.

This is a bit of optimism.

One of the things I really struggle with is calibrating.

Occasionally somebody will send me a first draft that's so bad that I'm like,

no you probably shouldn't have sent this yet because it looks like you didn't put any thought

into it. Do you give people a template? Do you have a, how do you help them know where the bar is?

Yeah, this is a terrible term. I don't know if it's a military term. I don't know what it is,

but a shitty first draft still has to be what we call completed staff work.

There has to be some pride in the first effort. It needs to be spell checked.

You need to have reviewed it and you need to be excited about where it can go and clear

that it's not where it's supposed to be. But it needs to be completed staff work.

Otherwise, it's disrespectful to the person you're sending it to and our ethos.

I think excitement is a great term. I'm really excited to share this idea.

Because if you phone it in, there's clearly no excitement.

The other thing that I love and we talk about courage and pushing ideas,

and this is, and I don't know if the two of you in your experience with the military,

you've had this, and I love this, which is completely different to corporate America,

...