Trump vs. NATO: Could the military alliance survive without America?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters

News, Society & Culture, Politics

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 13 February 2025

⏱️ 32 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Trump has clear disdain for NATO – but could he really pull the US out of the alliance? And what would be its prospects without American support? In the current geopolitical climate, the annual meeting this week of European military, security and political experts – the Munich Security Conference 2025 – has a special urgency. Just how far is the Trump administration truly in or out on European defence? And what are the prospects for NATO in the case of a transatlantic rift in the alliance? Gavin Esler talks to Camille Grand, distinguished policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations and former Assistant Secretary General for defence investment at NATO. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. www.podmasters.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:50.2	The annual get-together in Germany this week of European military security and political experts,
0:56.4	the Munich Security Conference 2025, has a special urgency this year.
1:01.9	Put bluntly, how far is the Trump administration truly in or out in European defence?
1:08.3	At one level, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, NATO, has been a
1:12.9	great success ever since it was founded in the 1940s. NATO's first Secretary-General, a British
1:19.3	General, Lord Ismay, partly defined the Alliance's purpose as to keep the Soviet Union out and
1:25.7	the Americans in. Now, in the 2020s, the Soviet Union out and the Americans in.
1:31.1	Now, in the 2020s, the Soviet Union is gone,
1:35.7	and Russia is out of NATO countries, but it has invaded Ukraine.
1:37.9	So, what are the Americans?
1:43.2	Is Trump's United States less in and more semi-detached? And with Donald Trump, is European security just about the money?
1:49.5	I'm Gavin Esler. This is not a drill. Donald Trump is clear about NATO's defense budget.
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