Hey, everyone. I'm Catherine Rampel. I am the economics editor at The Bullwork and the author of The Receipts

Newsletter. I am delighted to be joined today by Doug Rand. He is a former DHS official,

had a senior role at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. And he's also co-host of the Melting

Pod podcast. He is here to talk with us today about what the heck is going on with

the Trump administration's immigration policies, specifically targeting people applying for

green cards. Doug, thanks so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. So why don't we start

with your just explaining what this news was

this week pertaining to people applying for green cards. Thanks, Catherine. I have to say at the top,

there's a lot we don't know yet. This was a, you've seen this happen many times, particularly during

Trump's second term, where a policy is announced with great fanfare, the media

chases it, lots of people get really scared, and then over time they walk it back and walk it

back and whittle it down. It doesn't actually affect that many people because it's completely

illegal. This is in that category of thing, right? So on Friday, there was a daily caller

exclusive accompanied by a really deranged press release and a policy memo that basically said that for too long, it's been possible for people in the United States to apply for green cards from within the United States.

And from now on, they need to go home and apply from abroad.

This is just common sense.

It's actually upending over

70 years of bedrock immigration law. Most people who apply for green cards, which I want to specify,

it means permanent residency. So this is the last stop before you're eligible for citizenship.

It's a really important step on the way of becoming an American. Most people

apply for green cards from within the United States because they're already here legally on a student

visa or an H-1B visa or what have you. 780,000 people applied for green cards from within the

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