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The Daily Beast Podcast

Trump's Cognitive Collapse is Clear: Psychologist

The Daily Beast Podcast

The Daily Beast

News & Politics

4.67.9K Ratings

🗓️ 23 October 2025

⏱️ 44 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Dr. John Gartner joins the Beast's Joanna Coles to assess the unraveling of Donald Trump’s mind. The clinical psychologist and former Johns Hopkins professor, who warned early about Trump’s “malignant narcissism,” now says the president shows clear signs of cognitive decline, comparing his confusion and grandiosity to dictators in their final stages. Coles presses Gartner on whether Trump’s dementia makes him more dangerous or simply more delusional, and what that means for the remainder of Trump's second term and beyond. Is America being led by a man losing touch with reality, or is Trump still cunning enough to conceal his growing symptoms?

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Trump, because of his cognitive decline, is focusing on things like the ballroom and the paper that he writes things on.

0:06.3

If any of you have ever had someone in your family or friends who had dementia, one of the things you'll notice is they'll pick up on one concrete physical detail, and then they'll free associate to that detail, completely leaving the conversation, whatever the original topic of the

0:22.4

conversation was. Let's set the stage. He's brought 1,200 generals from around the world, right,

0:27.5

you know, for this very important meeting. And you'll forgive me, I automatically go into my Trump

0:32.5

voice when I do this. When I have a general, and I have to sign for a general, because we have beautiful paper,

0:39.3

gorgeous paper. I said, put a little more gold on it. They deserve it. I want the A paper,

0:45.2

not the D paper. We used to sign that piece of garbage. I said, this guy's going to be a general,

0:50.9

right? I want to use the big, beautiful firm paper. I want to use the real gold

0:56.7

writing. After all the work you do to become a general or an admiral, your commission, that commission

1:01.8

is beautifully displayed. And I sign it. You know, I actually love my signature. Everybody loves my

1:08.9

signature. But I sign it very proudly and I think to myself,

1:12.3

how can you have an auto pen do this? So disrespectful to me, it's totally disrespectful. As it turns

1:17.7

out, almost everything he did was by autopen, except when he gave his son Hunter a pardon.

1:22.7

He signed that one. Actually, it's the worst signature I've ever seen. The auto pen looks better.

1:31.2

It's right there in plain sight. We're all seeing it. But no one's calling.

1:36.9

It's like the emperor has no brain, but the media is afraid to say it. The professionals are afraid to say it. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. No one, no one has provoked more comments from you than our podcast with Dr. John Gartner.

1:51.4

He was an assistant professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University for 28 years.

1:58.1

He's a psychotherapist in private practice. And for a long time, he had the podcast

2:04.5

shrinking Trump, where he analyzed Donald Trump, the president, through his own words. And his

2:11.8

argument has always been that he's actually a very straightforward person to diagnose for a shrink because there's so much of him out there.

2:21.8

Donald Trump is a man who's been astride, the modern media, whatever form it's taken, for, well, I was going to say hundreds of years.

2:30.5

It feels like hundreds of years, but dozens of years.

...

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