I think the idea of separating out the very specific content that you might disagree on,

and the process that you're moving through to have the conversation is super important,

that constant attention to the process while you're trying to sort through the complexity of the information

and the facts and the possible solutions and the histories, the different histories involved.

Like, attending to the process while you're doing that is super important.

Thank you. you're doing that is super important. It's Unholy. I'm Jonathan Friedland in London.

And I'm Unite Levy in Tel Aviv.

And you were hearing Dr. Orna Gouranik in a conversation.

We will air later in this show, a really interesting conversation, which we brought in,

Orna, who is a psychologist and a therapist, and she usually, she's famous, I think world

famous for her show, couples therapy.

We wanted her to talk to a pair of friends that we were

in this episode that we're having difficulties over the Israel issue. And I think that's a, it's a

fascinating conversation. We will listen to it later in the show. It really is. And she's obviously

an expert in resolving tensions between people, couples, usually,

but in this case, as you say, a relationship between friends.

And we have noticed, as we say, we've said before on the podcast,

lots of people going through this in the world we're in.

And so we really brought that to it.

We could obviously have a whole separate franchise

of just sort of escape room therapy.

We could call it escape room.

...