Trump’s Betrayal of Ukraine

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 2 July 2025

⏱️ ? minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with a warning: The United States’ support for Ukraine is collapsing under Donald Trump’s second term—and with it, the global system of peace and security that has protected Americans for decades. David explains what Trump’s latest actions reveal about his motivations, and why Ukraine’s survival may now depend on the outcome of the 2024 election. Then David is joined by the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and now Democratic congressional candidate Bridget Brink, who served under both President Biden and President Trump. They discuss the true stakes of the war, the failure of the Trump administration to develop or execute a coherent Ukraine policy, and why Brink ultimately chose to resign her post. She offers a firsthand account of life in Kyiv during the early days of the full-scale invasion, the dangers facing American diplomats in war zones, and the institutional breakdowns now threatening U.S. foreign policy from within. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at theAtlantic.com/listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	What if you could listen to all your books, docs,
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0:15.0	Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the David Frum show. I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.
0:33.5	I'm speaking to you today from the offices of the Picton Gazette, one of the oldest continuously published newspapers in all of Canada.
0:40.3	It's Canada Day Week here in Canada, and many of our usual facilities are closed, so I'm very grateful to the editors and publishers of the Gazette for making their offices available to me to record this opening discussion.
0:52.0	My guest this week will be Ambassador Bridget Brink, who was appointed
0:55.7	by President Biden as Ambassador to Ukraine and then served under President Trump until the resignation
1:00.4	earlier this year. Ambassador Brink is now running for Congress for the Democratic nomination
1:05.5	in Michigan's 7th District. Our conversation was recorded before she made that announcement.
1:12.8	Before I turn to our conversation about Ukraine and its struggle for independence and about the inconsistent and unfavorable
1:17.7	attitude of the Trump administration toward Ukraine that she observed as ambassador, I want to say a few
1:22.5	personal words about what is at stake in this Ukrainian cause. The United States has built since 1945 an extraordinary
1:30.6	system of peace and security embracing much of the planet. It is a system from which many
1:35.2	countries benefit, but Americans too. That Americans do not need to learn a second language in most
1:40.4	cases. That they can travel about the world with a feeling of security. When they do
1:44.6	business, they do business under legal systems that are often inspired by the American example,
1:49.4	that when they travel as tourists or students or in any capacity, they can put down a credit
	...

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