This is Paul Adamson and I'm in conversation with Karen Donfried.

Karen Donfrey is present at the German Marshall Found of the United States.

And before assuming that role, just a couple of years ago, she was a special assistant to the President and Senior Director for European

Affairs on the National Security Council at the White House. There's so much we can talk about,

Karen, but I'd like to focus at least on two things. First of all, the reaction in DC or the

United States, America more broadly, to the Brexit vote, and then we'll talk about, if we have

time, about the recent Warsaw-NATO summit.

So let's start with the beginning, you should we say.

How do you think it's gone down in D.C. in particular, the decision by the British people

to withdraw from the European Union?

I think the reaction in D.C. was surprised. You can look at EU policy walks like me who were following it very closely

and saw what looked like an early concession from Nigel Farage and went to bed thinking,

hmm, you know, it looks like they'll stay in, to the broader public, which wasn't following it

with that level of detail, but had been lulled into this

sense that at the end of the day, there would likely be a slight majority to remain.

And in fact, you had a solid majority, 52% in favor of leaving. And I do think that created

quite a shock on the D.C. side of the Atlantic.

Okay. I know that the U.S. is very keen not to be seen as interfering in the politics of other

countries, including the United Kingdom. Having said that, do you think that there's any talk

in D.C., at least maybe not in government, but in the broader ecosystem of D.C., about a way out,

is, in your view or the view of the broader think-than community of D.C. about a way out. Is, in your view, or the view of the broader community community community in D.C.

That Brexit may not actually happen.

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