I think that Europe has finally understood, it's relevant that the U.S. demands a shift of burden in terms of financial commitments, and that we have sort of heated the call.

Here in the U.S., we hear a lot about President Trump's open disdain for NATO and how his actions

are reshaping the post-war global order. What does that all look like from Europe? Today,

Sweden's top general tells us that whatever the political tensions, military cooperation

across the Atlantic, runs deep and strong. I'm Mary Louise

Kelly. This is sources and methods from NPR. General Michael Clawson is Sweden's

chief of defense and supreme commander of Sweden's armed forces, and he's our guest for today's special episode.

He is here in Washington this week for meeting, so we wandered over to the Embassy of Sweden for chat.

As always, we'll be back here again Thursday with our regular episode to talk through the week's biggest national security news.

General, welcome.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

So let's get to it.

Sweden joined NATO two years ago.

Right.

Not a boring moment for the alliance.

No, not at all.

And not a boring moment for Sweden either. Well, not at all. And not a boring moment for Sweden either.

Well, I was going to say, Sweden had maintained an official policy of neutrality for more than two centuries since the days of Napoleon.

So let me start by asking, how has joining NATO changed Sweden? I think I would like to start with the fact that we entered into the partnership with NATO after the end of the Cold War.

And that of course changed a lot already at that time.

So we have effectively been present with troops in all NATO-led

...