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Back in the day, I was friends with a number of chefs,

and one relationship that's lasted is that with Tom Colicchio.

This isn't only because he's a great chef in the sense of cook and restaurateur, although he is.

And Kraft, which we're going to talk about, and is now celebrating its 25th anniversary,

was and remains important and influential.

But it's also because Tom, like me, became more political and outspoken about food in general as the years went by.

And given his somewhat exalted position as top chef's head judge, that wasn't without risks.

But he saw what needed to be done, and he did it.

Tom was one of the first guests on our podcast back in 2021, almost five years ago now.

He's won eight James Beard Awards, which has to be more than anyone, right?

And he's total fun.

Here we go.

My question is, with the 25th anniversary of Kraft, where the fuck did that quarter century go?

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I was 12 when we start this restaurant.

Yeah.

Oh, man. I don't know. I was there in opening week, I'm sure. flew by i don't know 25 years kind of crazy well

it was a great restaurant when it opened it was kind of a game changer in its presentation

and its menu and its attitude um the times called it nearly flawless, which, you know, that's not bad.

And so now you're overhauling the menu to center around what you're excited to cook today

...