From the historic campus of Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan, where the good, the true, and the beautiful are taught, nurtured, and honored, this is the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, bringing the activity and education of the college to listeners across the country.

You know, the caution is that we can't rely on president administrations to dictate, you know, the spiritual condition of the country.

That's up to each and every single one of us. And that's really the message of the book and just a way every day to just have a reminder about why God is blessing America and what our part is in all.

This is your host, Scott Bertram.

Welcome to the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. That was Todd Starns, Newsmax,

host also national radio host and award-winning journalist, co-author of the new book, Star Spangled

Blessings, Devotions for Patriots. We'll talk with him about the book later on in today's program.

First, we're joined by Dr. Joseph Postel.

He is Associate Professor of Politics at Hillsdale College,

author of the book, Bureaucracy in America,

The Administrative States Challenge to Constitutional Democracy.

Dr. Postel, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me on.

The book, Bureaucracy in America is a couple of years old now,

but still relevant, of course. We focus on a specific chapter today, Chapter 8,

the conservative counter revolution. And we date this around the late 70s. But before we delve

in, set the stage for us a bit, meaning around this time period, what does the administrative

state look like back then? And what is the court's role in the administrative process at this

point? Okay, great. So this is again, around the late 1970s, early 1980s, where you really start to see

conservative judges and justices on the Supreme Court start to think very critically

about the administrative state.

So in order to understand their reaction, we have to really understand what's going on at this

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