TIP737: Margin Of Safety by Seth Klarman w/ Kyle Grieve

We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network

Stig Brodersen

Education, Investing, Business

4.6 • 3.6K Ratings

🗓️ 13 July 2025

⏱️ 76 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On today’s episode, Kyle Grieve discusses the principles of value investing, including how to distinguish between speculation and true investing, the dangers of Wall Street's incentive structures, and the importance of prioritizing downside protection over upside potential. We’ll also delve into discipline for value investing, how to develop a margin of safety mindset, and how to build a risk-averse strategy and portfolio. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 05:04 - Why most investors speculate rather than invest—and how to tell the difference 11:01 - Why fund managers have structural weaknesses that require them to prioritize the wrong things 13:26 - Why EBITDA can mislead—and how it hides a business’s actual condition 16:46 - Why value investors focus more on downside protection than upside potential 18:47 - How to think about margin of safety when constructing a portfolio 31:51 - The three temperamental traits most critical to successful value investing 36:38 - Why value investors hold cash and how they use it as a strategic weapon 44:00 - A detailed breakdown of how Klarman values businesses 20:06 - The major types of value opportunities—and where to find them 1:02:49 - Klarman’s perspective on diversification and intelligent position sizing Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join Clay and a select group of passionate value investors for a retreat in Big Sky, Montana. Learn more ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members. Buy a copy of Margin of Safety here. Follow Kyle on Twitter and LinkedIn. Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Premium Feed⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. NEW TO THE SHOW? Get smarter about valuing businesses in just a few minutes each week through our newsletter, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Intrinsic Value Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Check out our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠We Study Billionaires Starter Packs⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow our official social media accounts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Finance Tool⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Enjoy exclusive perks from our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠favorite Apps and Services⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠best business podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: SimpleMining Hardblock AnchorWatch Human Rights Foundation Unchained Vanta Shopify Onramp HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠rating and review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it!⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to TIP.
0:02.9	Since 1982, Seth Clarmine has soundly defeated the S&P 500 by a wide margin.
0:08.4	His fund, the Boutos Group, has achieved annualized returns of 15% during that period compared
0:13.2	to just 11% for the S&P 500.
0:16.2	Now, what is Claremont's secret?
0:18.2	A risk-averse, value-driven philosophy which follows the timeless principles of Benjamin Graham's
0:23.1	central tenant, The Margin of Safety.
0:25.7	In 1991, Claremn published a book, Margin of Safety, which quickly became a cult classic
0:30.2	in the investing world.
0:31.8	The book reveals not only how to succeed, but also how to fail.
0:36.0	We'll cover why most investors speculate instead of invest invest and how that's a dangerous game to play.
0:41.4	We'll examine why chasing returns rather than avoiding losses can lead to lower compound
0:45.5	rates of return and the risk of never even reaching the finish line.
0:49.0	And we'll discuss why investors who focus on relative performance tend to achieve such poor
0:53.6	absolute performance
0:54.5	results. Now, this book is over 30 years old now, but many of its lessons remain just
1:00.1	important now as they were then. And I believe many aspects of the book will remain just as relevant
1:05.3	in another 30 plus years. This includes having a strategy that emphasizes capital preservation,
1:10.4	why investors shouldn't
1:12.3	be afraid to build up cash positions, how to avoid the pitfalls of EBITDA, and how to construct
1:17.6	a resilient portfolio that can survive and thrive in both bull and bear markets.
1:22.6	We'll also explore some of Carmen's insightful perspectives on Wall Street, his views on index
	...

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