We just love the idea that the world can be controlled, that the world can be defined,

it can be planned. And of course, to some extent, it can be. But then the question is,

when it doesn't work like that, when the plan changes, when you have to adjust or adapt,

are you ready? And what are you going to do? And how are you going to adapt? And messy,

I think, is an exploration of different ways that people respond to these failures of the world

to conform to the nice little boxes that we've tried to put it into.

I'm Sreeni Rao and this is the unmistakable creative podcast where you get a window into the

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Tim, welcome to the unmistakable creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

I was my pleasure. Thanks for having me on the show.

It is my pleasure. So I actually found it about your work because I read your book messy and

absolutely loved it. I thought it was highly relevant to creative people. I thought, yeah,

there's just so much valuable insight in here for anybody who is either a knowledge worker,

...