When the counselor is anxious on this edition of Truth and Love.

I'm Dale Johnson, and you're listening to Truth and Love,

a podcast of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors,

where we seek to provide biblical solutions

for the problems that people face. This week on the podcast, I am delighted to have with me.

A dear friend of mine, Josh Whiteman. Josh is a pastor at Grace Chapel in Denver, Colorado.

He's one of our certified members, and I just have such a good time hanging out with Josh and talking to him about the things of God and ways that we struggled in the past and ways that we can encourage one another.

And I thought those discussions between us have been so fun that I wanted you guys to sit in on one of those.

One of the topics, Josh, that we have talked about extensively is

this issue of anxiety. You've written a book about this, a book called The End of Anxiety that

came out in 2020, and it was very insightful look at how we think about anxiety, how we deal with

it biblically. Being honest that we struggle with it

is a good start, and then being able to answer those things from Scripture. And today I want us to

take a little bit of a different angle. I want us to think about this. Our mind is always trying to

gain information so that we can help those that we counsel. But it's not unusual that we're flawed as well.

We are fleshly people. We live in this body of death. We struggle in the world. And we're not trying

to conform our councilees to us. We're not the standard in this, right? We're trying to conform

our councilese to Christ because we need to be conformed to him as well.

And it's not unusual that we as counselors might experience some of these same types of thoughts

and feelings as anxiety.

I know we've talked about your story to some degree.

And I want you to just share a little bit about your personal story of the way that you've

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