equipping your church for personal ministry on this edition of Truth and Love.

I'm Dale Johnson and you're listening to Truth and Love, a podcast of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors,

where we seek to provide biblical solutions for the problems that people face.

And this week on the podcast, I am delighted to have with me one of our board members, a certified

ACBC member, Andrew Rogers. Andrew teaches at Boyce College in Louisville, Kentucky.

I've been there for a couple of years, and he now serves, as many of you our

listeners would remember, as the executive director for OIC, the overseas instruction in counseling.

He's also married to Jenny, has four children. Andrew, I'm super glad that you're here, and I'm really

glad about your new role as the executive director of

OIC, and look forward to the topic that we're going to talk about today. Now, as we think about

this idea of equipping churches, you guys who listen regularly, you hear me talk a lot about

church and my love and the necessity to think about the churches that we minister

to as the culture, as having a culture of care. And I think that's something that we need to

consistently revisit often as we think about how we're equipping churches, how we're thinking

about churches. And I want more churches to think in terms of biblical counseling And I want more churches to think in terms of

biblical counseling. I want more churches to think in terms of equipping and offering legitimate

care. But Andrews, as you and I even have talked outside of this podcast, is sometimes

we have to be cautious and maybe even offer a warning to churches in the way in which

they think about counseling, ministry, in the way in which they think about the care that

they offer.

And historically, churches have kind of fluctuated back and forth in so many ways.

Talk about what we should be warned against in some of our churches as we pursue the idea of

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