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So in one of my earliest positions, I was in my early 20s, really my first role after I was out of sports and into just a marketing role. I was low in the org chart hierarchy.

And the director of marketing in this company, that actually was a really,

I know director sometimes in different companies hold a different, you know,

level, but a director in this company

was really high up there. And what would happen is every time we would do a print piece, like a,

you know, it was like a sales catalog that was going to go out in the mail, the director, who was

two or three positions higher than me would read it and mark it up

to such detail. I mean, just extreme. Red line the whole thing. And even at that very young age,

I would think, wow, this is, I kind of thought once you were

leading the vision for driving the revenue of a company this size, and this is a huge

hundreds of stores, this person is in charge of, that you wouldn't be doing this, you know, as I got in further to

my career, I was like, oh, that's what micromanaging is, just the very tiniest details of

grammatical errors. And so eventually, you know, I learned that there is a better way to lead.

But it always felt like you just never knew

at what moment this director may see some piece that you're working on and find 12 ways to mark

red on it at any given time. It was a strange, it was a strange time. I learned that that was

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