Hey, this is the moment. I'm Brian Koppelman. Thanks for listening. My guess today is Thomas Chatter and Williams, who is a great writer, full stop.

Man, I read both of your books, each one the day it came out,

and, you know, the way the book business is now,

like that just, most people don't do that anymore, and most

authors don't demand that of you. There's so much available, but I loved the first book so

much that I, the second, you know, the second book came out, I had to read it.

And I was not disappointed in any way and I wrote you after your first book and then wrote you again

after the second one and I was like we got to talk so

thanks for being here thanks for having me that said the first book which is

called losing my cool and the new book is called self-portrait and black and

white the first book would be very easy to have a conversation about.

It's a father-son story.

It's a coming-of-age story.

And it's quite universal, I think. I think.

Yeah.

And I imagine the reaction you got to it was was.

It was straight. I mean that book came out,

losing my cool came out in 2010.

This was really a different time in the age of social media and the reception was pretty much along the lines of it was a coming of age father-son story.

I think if the book were to come out now the critiques I made about hip-hop culture

throughout the book and the pressure that imposes on black male identity especially

I think it would have been a it would have been a different thing and maybe some of the father-son

...