"This Is How Your Marriage Ends" | Matthew Fray's Rock Bottom

Rock Bottom With Ned Fulmer

Fulmer Media

Comedy Interviews, Kids & Family, Parenting, Interviews, Curiousity, Ned, Fulmer, Bottom, Comedy, Empathy, Rock, Inspirational

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 19 November 2025

⏱️ 63 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Author Matthew Fray recounts the unexpected aftermath of his divorce: a community and movement towards eliminating unintentional invalidation in relationships.

ABOUT:

Rock Bottom is a show that explores the lowest, most embarrassing, and challenging moments in people's lives in order to find unexpected resilience, transformation, and growth within.

Let us know in the comments who you'd like to see on the show next.

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MUSIC:

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Transcript

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0:00.0	My marriage ended a little over 12 years ago, and it just took it so hard. I wasn't suicidal,
0:06.8	but I didn't care about, like, being alive. And so I really dug in in self-preservation,
0:14.2	like trying to figure out, like, what was this? In doing that work, I discovered what I feel like
0:20.8	is, I don't know, almost like a secret, that
0:22.9	very good, well-intentioned people who love each other can do things which result in a lot of
0:29.7	pain, which can do things which result in a lot of trust erosion. And I believe most
0:34.3	disconnection that occurs in relationships occurs in people's blind spots.
0:41.0	Matt Frey, welcome to Rock Bottom. How's it going?
0:46.3	Not so bad, Ned. Thank you so much for having me.
0:48.5	I'm happy to be here. Thanks for being here. So, Matthew, you are an author. You're the author of This Is How
0:56.9	Your Marriage Ends, as well as a viral blog post. She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink.
1:04.0	I would love to hear from you about your work, and I'm sure that it can help a lot of people. I know that I listened to
1:14.5	your audiobook when I was going through a crisis in my own marriage and it certainly helped me
1:20.3	a lot so I'm really, really happy to have you on the show. Nice. Thank you so much. I'm flattered
1:25.6	you listened to it. I didn't know that. Um, you know, I mean, my marriage ended a little over 12 years ago. It was like spring 12 years ago. And it just took it so hard. And I'd never like sort of experienced any personal adversity before not like on that level and so
1:46.8	I really dug in in self-preservation like trying to figure out like what was this because it
1:52.9	everything seemed right she seemed like a fantastic relationship partner I evaluated myself as far from
1:58.4	perfect but like a pretty solid choice you know I didn't do anything like overtly horrible.
2:03.0	And I just couldn't like figure it out.
2:04.6	Like, why didn't this work?
2:06.5	Because because this is super likely to happen again if I don't understand it.
2:11.5	And in doing that work, I discovered what I feel like is, I don't know, almost like a secret that sounds so lame.
	...

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