It's been really, really hard to find any degree of light. When you are reporting on this and you're seeing the images that I'm seeing every single day, obviously it takes a massive toll on your mental health.

Journalists are very often afraid of talking about that because again it implies you're biased, you're not neutral, but also like, if I was to say to you, do you find it disturbing the images that you are seeing of Palestinian children in Gaza?

Of course you're going to say yes in Gaza, of course you're going

to say yes. Like, how can you not say yes? It is just affecting. There's a lightheartedness

to illustration and to your illustration and a wit, which I'm not getting from this

conversation. I mean, if something happened to you, I mean, like, you know, miserable, Krishna.

Well, to be honest, you know, you're coming over as that.

And I'm wondering, were you a lighthearted, witty person who was trying to get spread

messages in a clever way, who has been beaten down by the realities of what's going on in Gaza?

Or you're always like this.

Just making witty content.

I don't know.

I'm quite lost, to be honest.

Hello and welcome to Ways to Change the World. I'm Christian Guru Murphy. And this is the podcast

in which we talk to extraordinary people about the big ideas and their lives and the events

that have helped shape them. My guest today is Mona Chalabi, a Pulitzer Prize-winning data journalist, illustrator and writer.

She's gained international recognition for her distinctive illustrations,

which distill complex issues like wealth disparity and racial injustice into art that's very relatable and easily understood.

Welcome to the podcast.

Hi, Krishna.

How do you want to change the world?

I'm going to start with a very, very humble beginning, maybe just have journalists describe

...