Welcome to Kurt Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I'm the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs

Magazine. I am joined today by Lorne Stockman. He is the research co-director at Oil Change

International. Loran Stockman, thank you so much for joining us on Current Affairs today.

Hey, it's great to be here.

I wonder if we could start with you just telling our listeners and readers just what

oil change international your organization does and what your role at it is. Yeah, sure. Oil Change International, your organization does and what your role at it is.

Yeah, sure. Oil Change International is a not-for-profit research communications and advocacy group.

We use research and data to support the climate movement, particularly on issues around fossil fuel supply and why fossil fuels

need to be kept in the ground for us to achieve our climate goals and save the planet from

climate catastrophe.

I appreciate what your organization does, and I don't often enjoy getting press releases

in my inbox, but I enjoy

getting press releases from Oil Change International because I feel a lot of the time on climate

like I'm going crazy, because I feel as if there's a quite simple truth, which is that

if we want to avoid a catastrophic future, we have to stop burning fossil fuels.

And I really appreciate an organization that seems to recognize that we have to stop burning

fossil fuels. Right. Yeah. I mean, you make a very good point there. And in fact, that's

something we've been talking about since we were founded in 2005. And I think, you know, we've spent the last

nearly 20 years telling that story and pushing that narrative. Remarkably, lots of decision

makers in particular, and obviously the fossil fuel industry, don't want to accept that truth.

But yeah, I mean, you know, it's clear that there are a lot of

extremely well-funded interests that have been pushing back against that narrative for quite some

...