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Conversations That Matter

The Zach Garris Trial Explained in 15 Minutes

Conversations That Matter

Jon Harris

Society & Culture

4.31.1K Ratings

🗓️ 2 June 2026

⏱️ 15 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this episode, I break down the Rio Grande Presbytery’s trial of PCA pastor Zach Garris—how their case against him on slavery views backfired, resulting in a controversial “corrupt speech” conviction instead. A revealing look at judicial process, ideological tensions, and potential fallout in the PCA.


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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hey guys, I want to talk to you about the trial of Zach Garris in the Presbyterian Church in America.

0:18.5

I already did a podcast where I talked about this in more of a long

0:22.0

form, but I wanted to give those who didn't want to go searching in a long podcast, just a short

0:25.8

form, to understand what's going on. I've known Zach since at least 2019. He wrote a book on

0:34.8

feminism. It really was more of a republication, a recovery of what Robert

0:40.6

Louis Dabney said about feminism, and he wrote a little forward to it.

0:43.4

Well, if you read Dabney's works, he's extremely helpful, very insightful, and a lot of his

0:52.8

essays apply to today.

0:56.0

He's dealing with the early stages of progressivism in the United States, and he's predicting

1:01.5

exactly where it's going to go.

1:03.0

And so he does this with public education, with feminism, and some other government policies.

1:10.0

And so that's why I published this book is just to make it more accessible.

1:14.2

Even if you don't agree with everything he wrote or said, that's fine.

1:17.8

That's, I think, to be expected with anyone.

1:22.0

You know, and I don't think just because of his association with slavery that we should ignore him,

1:27.3

I think that's to our

1:28.8

detriment. And I interviewed him for my podcast on this point. That was an issue at that time.

1:33.4

It still is. And I've known since that point, at least, that there are those in the Presbyterian

1:39.8

Church in America in an evangelicalism, more broadly, who don't like Zach because of his teachings

1:45.8

on male patriarchy, on respect for figures like James Henley Thornwell, Robert Louis

1:53.8

Dabney, despite the fact that some Presbyterians have tried to cancel them. I think

1:58.9

Zach is someone who is younger, who has a legal background.

...

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