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Folger Shakespeare Library: Shakespeare Unlimited

The Yorkist Pretender, with Jo Harkin

Folger Shakespeare Library: Shakespeare Unlimited

Folger Shakespeare Library

Arts

4.7 • 837 Ratings

🗓️ 22 April 2025

⏱️ 36 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Who was Lambert Simnel—the boy who nearly claimed the Tudor throne? In late 15th-century England, identity wasn’t just a matter of birth—it could be a political weapon, a tool for rebellion, and sometimes, an outright performance. The story of Simnel, a boy plucked from obscurity and passed off as the York heir, reveals how precarious the Tudor dynasty really was—and how easily the lines between truth and fiction could blur. Author Jo Harkin joins us to explore the strange life of Simnel, the so-called Yorkist “pretender” who nearly toppled Henry VII. In her new novel The Pretender, Harkin imagines Simnel’s life beyond the history books, from his childhood on a farm to his years at court. Along the way, she unpacks what it meant to be groomed for kingship, what royal power struggles looked like from a child’s point of view, and how historical fiction can fill in the gaps of the past. Though Shakespeare never wrote a play about Henry VII, his portrayal of Richard III helped shape how we remember the Wars of the Roses—and how we understand power, myth, and legacy. Harkin reflects on those cultural inheritances, showing how writing about this era means grappling with historical facts and the fictions we’ve come to accept. Simnel’s story reminds us that what endures isn’t always what’s real, but what people are ready to believe. Jo Harkin’s debut speculative fiction novel, Tell Me An Ending, was a New York Times Book of the Year. Her first historical novel, The Pretender, was published in April 2025 in the U.K. and the U.S. She lives in Berkshire, England. From the Shakespeare Unlimited podcast. Published April 22, 2025. © Folger Shakespeare Library. All rights reserved. This episode was produced by Matt Frassica. Garland Scott is the executive producer. It was edited by Gail Kern Paster. We had help with web production from Paola García Acuña. Leonor Fernandez edits our transcripts. Final mixing services are provided by Clean Cuts at Three Seas, Inc.

Transcript

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0:00.0

From the Folger Shakespeare Library, this is Shakespeare Unlimited.

0:07.4

I'm Farah Kareem Cooper, the Folger director.

0:12.4

In the Shakespeare world, we don't talk much about Henry the 7th, also known as Henry Tudor.

0:19.7

He's the king who came between the much more colorful Richard III and Henry VIII.

0:25.6

Maybe that's why Shakespeare never wrote a play about him,

0:28.6

although he does show up in Richard III as the guy who finally does Richard Inn.

0:35.6

Henry the 7th was the first Tudor Monarch.

0:39.3

His reign ended the Wars of the Roses between the Houses of York and Lancaster.

0:44.3

But while Henry was king, Rebel Lord started uprisings behind pretenders to the crown,

0:51.3

impostors who were believed to be Yorkist princes. One of those pretenders was

0:56.8

Lambert Simmel, and his eventful life is now the subject of the novel The Pretender by Joe Harkin.

1:04.9

Joe Harkin is also the author of the sci-fi novel Tell Me an Ending about a tech company

1:10.8

that removes unwanted

1:12.3

memories. Here's Joe Harkin in conversation with Barbara Bogay. I was hoping we could start

1:22.2

with a reading from your book, maybe right from the beginning, and could you set it up for us,

1:26.9

please?

1:33.1

Of course. So this is our character, John, as he's known at this point in the book. And he's growing up on the farm where his life is pretty peaceful, aside from doing battle most days with his

1:38.1

nemesis, a goat. So this is chapter one. Was this the first thing he wrote of his own? I am John Collan.

1:46.7

Today in the year 1483, I will defeat the goat. In the name of honour and glory to God

1:52.7

highest and for reason that it knocked me in the mud again today and has trodden churlishly over my back,

1:59.3

has despoiled, an insult that cannot be born.

2:03.3

John has made a plan of battle, according to the ancient art of the famous Vagetius,

...

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