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Hello and welcome the Red Box podcast on The Times. I'm Matt Surely.

This is part three of the Red Box whip round,

a special miniseries of interviews going behind the scenes of the whip's office.

In this episode I speak to Anne Taylor, who first became a whip in 19th. the and severely ill MPs were wheeled into Parliament to stop the government collapsing.

She went on to be appointed by Tony Blair as the first female government chief whip in 1998.

Now Baroness Taylor, I joined her in her office in the House of Lords to discuss how the nature of whipping

has changed and whether the end of late night votes was necessarily a good thing.

So I'm telling you you're unusual if you like because you were both a whip in the Callahan government in the

1970s where whipping was a huge job of difficult task but you also a whip in the

Blair government chief whip in the Blair government at a time when you had a huge majority and presumably things were little easier than you found it in the in the 1970s.

Well the problems were different.

Yeah. When you have a big majority, everybody thinks it doesn't matter how they vote,

whether they vote against the government or whether they're here or whether they're not and whatever.

...