Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I am the editor-in-chief of current affairs magazine. We welcome back to the program today, Katrina Van Denhovel, executive or editorial director and publisher of

The It Nation magazine.

Katrina, welcome back to Kurt Fares.

Thank you for having me on.

Now, well, I really wish we did.

I don't think we've made much progress since we last spoke.

Well, I was looking back.

We spoke about the Ukrainian-Russian war. I know. I was looking back... We spoke about the Ukrainian-Russian

war. I was looking back through the transcript of our conversation that we had in

2022. Wow. And I realized that in that conversation, you were going through and you were

explaining, you know, the origins of the war, the need for a diplomatic solution to – and here we are.

And I honestly, like much of what you said to me could have been said here today in May of 2025.

Nathan, I said – we spoke after the war began, after Russia launched the war. So we are now here May 2025.

Thousands of Ukrainian and Russian men, some women, have been killed in a war that is far

more reminiscent of World War I, the mud, the trenches, block by block, as opposed to the war that

has just been commemorated the 80th anniversary of World War II. There is some diplomacy.

President Biden did not talk to Putin for three years. That has been documented. And I find that

criminal simply because both powers have nukes.

Also, when you cut off relations, it goes down the pipeline.

So like, you know, there's no, there's no dialogue.

President Trump, whatever one thinks, I mean, odious, toxic, vulgar.

We can do an adjutant, just of the adjectives to describe home.

...