The two Europes: Macron, Salvini, and the battle for a continent
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The Spectator
4.4 • 785 Ratings
🗓️ 6 September 2018
⏱️ 35 minutes
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Summary
This week antagonism between Emmanuel Macron and Italy’s Matteo Salvini ratcheted up over immigration – are they the leaders of an ideological battle in Europe (00:35)? But pro-immigration or not, both Macron and Salvini smashed through conventional politics in the global surge of populism. As we reach the tenth anniversary of the 2008 crash, we ask, did the financial crisis lead to greater populism (12:40)? And last, why have Americans been boycotting Nike (24:20)?
With Christopher Caldwell, Sophie Pedder, Liam Halligan, Ann Pettifor, Coleman Hughes and Freddy Gray.
Presented by Isabel Hardman.
Produced by Cindy Yu.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to The Spectator podcast. I'm Isabel Hardman. This week, antagonism between |
| 0:10.3 | Emmanuel Macron and Italy's Matteo Salvini ratcheted up over immigration. Are they the leaders of |
| 0:16.2 | an ideological battle in Europe? But pro-immigration or not, both Macron and Salvini smashed through |
| 0:22.7 | conventional politics in the global surge of populism. As we reached the 10th anniversary of the 2008 crash, |
| 0:29.9 | we ask, did the financial crisis lead to greater populism? And last, why have Americans been |
| 0:36.1 | boycotting Nike? |
| 0:41.2 | First, is there a battle brewing in Europe over immigration? |
| 0:46.8 | On the one side, Emmanuel Macron seems to represent the ideals of a globalist EU, |
| 0:49.4 | the natural successor to Merkel's liberalism. |
| 0:56.4 | On the other, Italy's Mateo Salvini is bringing anti-immigrant populism into the very heart of the EU, |
| 1:01.4 | supported by movements across the continent and fellow leaders like Hungary's Victor Orban. |
| 1:08.0 | Christopher Caldwell argues in this week's cover piece that this is an ideological battle for Europe's future. |
| 1:12.3 | He joins me today, together with Sophie Pedder, the economist's Paris Bureau Chief and author of Revolution Francaise, a new biography on Macron. Christopher, in your |
| 1:18.8 | cover piece, you argue there is an ideological divide in Europe, with Macron leading one side and Italy's |
| 1:24.2 | Salvini leading the other. Just who is Matteo Salvini? Well, Matteo Salvini is |
| 1:30.3 | an Italian politician with the League party. The League is a party that was founded in the 1980s |
| 1:37.7 | as the Northern League. It was a sort of a separatist, sort of Milan and Turin-based movement, which has served in Italian governments |
| 1:46.8 | before, and not necessarily as the most radical part of them. It was in the Berlusconi government. |
| 1:52.3 | But Salvini became the party leader a few years ago, and he has turned it into a more, |
| 1:57.5 | tried to turn it into a more national party. And he's now the Minister of Interior |
| 2:01.8 | in the new Italian government, which is a coalition between his league and the more street |
| 2:09.8 | theatrical kind of five-star movement. And Sophie, do you agree that he does represent the ideological |
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