You're listening to the Tudor Dixon podcast in the Clay and Buck podcast network.

Welcome to the Tudor Dixon podcast. I'm Tudor Dixon and today I'm joined by Bobby Burick,

a writer for out kick based right here in the beautiful state of Michigan.

Bobby reports and analyzes the latest media topics and trends and his latest column caught my

interest. I want to dive more into that today. Bobby, thank you so much for being here.

Tudor, thanks for having me. I can't tell it's just last time, but it's so rare to talk to

other people in media from Michigan. All of them seem to be based in LA or New York or Nashville.

So yeah, you and I are the only ones that I know of. So it's pretty cool.

I think it's great because we have the opportunity to kind of give that Midwest perspective and

not a lot of people here from folks in the Midwest. Your column this week was very interesting to me

because not only are you talking about affirmative action, but you're talking about ESG.

I think both of those things are things that affect the Midwest quite a bit. We have a lot of

businesses here who feel like they're being crushed by the ESG. But we have a lot of awesome

universities in Michigan, especially. And I want to get to what you're saying about affirmative

action because obviously we had this decision from the Supreme Court. It kind of made people

go a little crazy on both sides. You have people on the right defending it. You have people on

the left saying that this is an atrocity. But you have kind of dug deep into this and said,

is this really a good thing? I mean, your numbers on Harvard were shocking to me. So I want you to

kind of explain the background here. Yeah, when the ruling came out, I think it was a came down.

I think it was a Thursday or Friday. And everybody rushed to judgment and the right loved it,

the left hated it. And I didn't have an immediate opinion because those opinions don't carry that

much away. I mean, I always opposed the idea of affirmative action. But when I saw it, I said,

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