The truth about men on the 'down low'
It's Been a Minute
NPR
4.7 • 9.2K Ratings
🗓️ 25 February 2026
⏱️ 25 minutes
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Summary
To some, they're a secret, sexy symbol. To others, they're carriers of diseases and lies. What is the truth about men who live their sexual lives 'on the DL', and what does our culture's recurring fascination with them say about how society treats men whose sexualities don't fit into neat boxes? Brittany is joined by Dr. Jeffrey McCune, author of Sexual Discretion: Black Masculinity and the Politics of Passing, and Kai Wright - a journalist and host for the Guardian who has been writing about sexual politics for the last 30 years.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This message comes from Normal Gossip, a Radiotopia podcast. |
| 0:04.1 | Join host Rachel Hampton as she shares juicy, strange, funny, and utterly banal gossip about people you'll never know and never meet. |
| 0:13.1 | Subscribe to Normal Gossip wherever you get your podcasts. |
| 0:18.2 | This was never about the health of black women. |
| 0:20.7 | This was about creating a boogeyman, which is the hypersexualized, dangerous black man |
| 0:27.7 | who walks around, horny, and just destroying everything with his lust. |
| 0:32.7 | And so it becomes almost like a community criminal, right? |
| 0:36.8 | But the reality is that most black gay men, one point in our lives, we would DL. |
| 0:45.1 | Allow me to take you back for a second to the daytime TV of yesteryear. |
| 0:51.4 | The year is 2004. |
| 0:52.9 | I remember sitting in my living room, well, my parents living room, |
| 0:56.9 | watching Oprah with my mom. And there was this conversation about D.L. men. That's men on the down low, |
| 1:04.7 | meaning that they are discreet or secretive about having sex with other men. Not even let's have |
| 1:10.3 | any kind of relationship beyond sex? |
| 1:12.6 | If I was gay, yes. But when you're on a DL, all you want to do is have sex. |
| 1:16.5 | It's about gratification, not orientation. |
| 1:19.7 | That was 2004. |
| 1:21.8 | But now it's 2026. |
| 1:23.8 | And if you open up TikTok right now, you'll hear the same thing. |
| 1:28.7 | Okay, so how does that tell if your man is Dio? |
| 1:30.5 | So this is something important for us to talk about. |
| 1:33.7 | The DL man is a recurring character in black culture, |
... |
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