The trouble of zero
Short Wave
NPR
4.7 • 6.5K Ratings
🗓️ 2 January 2026
⏱️ 13 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Today, scientists seek to understand how much humans truly comprehend zero — and why it seems to be different from other numbers. That's how we ended up talking to science writer Yasemin Saplakoglu in this encore episode about the neuroscience of this number that means nothing.
Read more of Yasemin's reporting on zero for Quanta Magazine. Plus, check out our episode on why big numbers break our brains.
Interested in more math episodes? Let us know what kind of stories you want to hear from us in 2026 by emailing shortwave@npr.org!
Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave.
See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.
NPR Privacy Policy
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Support for NPR and the following message come from Yarl and Pamela Mohn, thanking the people who make public radio great every day and also those who listen. |
| 0:10.5 | You're listening to Shortwave from NPR. |
| 0:16.0 | Hey, Shorewavers, it's Regina Barber. Happy New Year! |
| 0:20.6 | The New Year is all about blank slates, |
| 0:23.7 | new beginnings, starting from scratch. And so we thought, what better time than now to focus |
| 0:28.7 | on the number that signifies origin points, literally starting from nothing, zero. |
| 0:34.3 | So zero was invented relatively late in history. It was first thought to be invented around like |
| 0:39.7 | 2,500 years ago by Babylonian traders in ancient Mesopotamia, actually. |
| 0:45.7 | That's Yasmin Sopla Kolo. She's a science writer at Quantum Magazine. |
| 0:50.1 | Back then, they used the symbol like two slanted wedges on clay tablets. But at the time, it wasn't a number yet. |
| 0:57.2 | It was really used as a placeholder so that you can distinguish between different types of numbers like 20 or 250 or 205. |
| 1:05.5 | And Yasmin says that this idea of a placeholder wasn't totally unique. |
| 1:09.8 | The ancient Maya, for example, had a little shell symbol that they used in a similar way. |
| 1:14.9 | But zero didn't really become a number on its own until around the seventh century. |
| 1:19.9 | There were Indian mathematicians who came up with a couple of ways to use zero as a number, |
| 1:26.5 | and they were the kind of first to figure out that zero could be |
| 1:30.6 | a digit just like the other numbers like one and two and three after that it kind of went out from |
| 1:38.6 | India to the Arab world and then you know in the 13 century, Feminacci actually picked up the idea during his |
| 1:45.3 | travels in North Africa. And he brought it back to medieval Europe, you know, along with the |
| 1:50.7 | base 10 number system. But in medieval Europe, not everyone was thrilled about this concept of |
| 1:57.6 | zero. People had difficulty with accepting it. |
| 2:01.1 | It was kind of scary. |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from NPR, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of NPR and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

