There's so much in our lives that is about performance.

I need to perform online with my social media feed.

I need to perform well at work or in sports or wherever it is.

But in our marriages, if we've made mistakes, sometimes that shame and guilt can just

weigh us down and we need some grace. I'm John Fuller, joined by Aaron and Greg Smalley. They

lead the Focus Marriage Department. And about this topic of grace, Jim Daly spoke with Brad and

Marilyn Rhodes. And on a prior episode, they brought up how they had a very difficult start

in their marriage. But let's listen in as they talk a little bit more about grace.

Describe what a performance-based marriage looks like. That's the theme of the book. You're

talking about grace-based marriage or grace marriage. So the opposite of that, I guess, would be the

performance-based marriage.

It sounds sophisticated. It sounds professional. It sounds like a graduate class in relationship.

But performance-based, what are the adjectives that describe a performance-based marriage?

It's conditional. If you're kind to me, then I'll be kind to you. You know,

in that first year, when Brad wasn't acting like I wanted him to act or helping me, I just withdrew.

I distanced myself from him. I cried. I just felt alone. And I wasn't going to do kind

things for him. I really just isolated myself in those moments.

Let's unravel that a little bit. What was happening to you emotionally? Because I, in some

ways, you represent wives, obviously. And so you became more isolated. What was happening to you

that you, like you couldn't express it or you felt like when you expressed it, Brad would just knock it down

or didn't receive it.

But kind of tease that out a little bit because I'm sure half the audiences or more will be

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